The truth and nothing but the truth.

[Guest]

This is a quote from my friend. I feel the same way, do any of you?


"Whilst I do like the new stuff it is the old stuff I listen to. We're talking Gorgeous and before but specially Quadrastate 90 and Excel. They're the tunes that make the hairs on my neck stand up.

f*** musical integrity or any of that pish. I got into 808 cos they made me feel great (with help from other things) and I could listen to them without gettin bored. You knew that In Yer Face was better than Rezerection shite just cos the bass was louder.

Now they have gone off into musical f***in obscurity for no reason. They can still write the tunes, they just need to make them easier on the ear sometimes. It is fine to stick 2 fingers up at folk who don't understand you but if they just stick their fingers in their ears then what is the point?

Educate rather than isolate that's what I say. Sound like f***in Malcolm X or some shit.

Last thing I can't understand is the Spinmasters DJ sets which are a lot more accessable. If that is what Darren and Andy listen to then why not put that across live? To tell you the truth they have not looked interested last times I have seen them. Don't want to say it but are they drifting from Graham.

Here is my 3 step plan for 808 to regain their greatness:

1 More hands in the air.
2 Less smartarsing.
3 Tell the geezers to lose the 808state butterfly t-shirts at gigs."

[markus]

I'm tempted to reply (I know who you two boys are), but will hold back for a while as I'd be interested to see if Graham or any of the 'disinterested' band members have anything to say.

[stephen]

If it makes you feel better look at what the Prodigy have turned into.
I think 808 State need to focus on putting out good music, it's no longer the early 90s you have a lot of extremely bad dance music dominating the charts.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: stephen on 2002-07-03 02:57 ]</font>

[pacific reefer]

Artists do not owe their fans anything.
Creative personalities simply 'create' as they feel fit. The problems begin when art is sold to the highest bidder. That's when it loses integrity.
One of the reasons I like 808 is because they seem to have always done their own thing regardless of what others say. If you like cheesy rave dude, go listen to it. Wave your hands about...I'm sure Graham won't be too bothered by it.
808 State are an album concept type band. That's what they do best and I, for one, would rather hear them do their own thing, not simply repeat what has been done before.

Steve

[PatFromCanada]

Bands like 808 state are too few and far between. When 808 first hit the scene they offered an audience something special and Fresh. New soundscapes that have never been touched before.

I love 808 state because they never 'follow the heard'. They keep doing what they want, searching for that something that even they haven't heard yet. Alas, true artistry and craftsmanship!

At the end of the day, when I hear a track that they have put thier mits on, I know it's 808! They still have that vibe. That feeling. I can relate to the state of 808.

808 are f***ing great! Amen to that!

P.

[Rodders]

hmm, very interesting points being made here, and i kinda agree with both... although from ex:el onwards i've never really viewed 808 as a 'dance' band, more a band who sometimes make tunes you can dance to, and sometimes you can't. 808 don't seem to fall into any niche or category, and thats both a blessing and a curse. i do think they ought to stop playing live at "dance" events because they just don't seem to fit in, i know at glasgow the new remixes went down well, but quincy and the new stuff just didn't appeal to the young clubby crowd. conversely, its about time daz and andy showed up at a few big dance festivals and showed some bigger name DJ's how its done.

theres a quote off a review of don solaris somewhere (the link was off a post, can't think which at the mo) that basically said "808 have made another fine album.. so what's new?" and i think that hits the nail on the head. personally as long as they continue to release music in whatever style, im more than happy. i would hate it if because of lack of sales or interest they struggled to get tunes released, but then again i wouldn't want them to 'sell out' in order to do so. i really do like the fact that they've pursued their own course, doing it coz they like doing it, not the money or the fame.

808 state ARE f***ing great.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rodders on 2002-07-03 14:14 ]</font>

[SteveC]

Amen to that!!

[Rich The Donkey Doctor]

I think Rodders has hit the nail on the head there, but what I would add is that I've always felt 808 should play the 'game' more. I'd say that acts such as Leftfield, Chems, Underworld, Orbital etc. are all defined by highly individual, original styles (as are 808,) but whereas they are still accepted by the dance crowd, 808 always seem alienated and aloof, especially in the dance press. Dont bite the hand that feeds you!

I agree they are an 'album' band (what successful band isn't?) but even Kraftwerk were associated with a particular genre (Electro-pop). I like the way 808 want to be mavericks following their own paths, but why then play concerts/festivals based almost soley on former glories? Surely a contradiction?

Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge fan of Graham Massey and 808, but I wish they'd come down off the fence and become re-associated with some kind of scene...whilst still being "808STATE".

<

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rich The Donkey Doctor on 2002-07-04 04:27 ]</font>

[Mark]

I agree that the early tunes of 808 were very much hands in the air stuff, but from EX:EL onwards they got a bit smarter.

The music was more elaborate and the use of vocalists added something else.

Diversity has always been the key to my liking of 808. You never know whats coming next and although the music has gotten less commercial it has changed with the times. You can't live in the past with music, as technology brings things forward all the time.

I reckon Don Solaris is the bands best work. Thats not to say I don't like 90 or EX:EL, but I feel DS has more structure, the songs don't make me jump in the air, but I love just listening to them, who says you have to dance to dance music to enjoy it?

They haven't stuck with a tried and tested formula, Orbital and Underworld have and perhaps thats why they are so good live, but can you sit with your headphones on and simply listen to an Underworld album? Its heavy listening.

808 have never been critically accliamed but I think they have respect in thier own field. Altern8's 'Full on..' album reads inside...

'A very big thank you to 808 State for kickstarting this whole business'

So 808 were pioneers, success never lasts, and the lads have taken thier own musical path maybe into obscurity but thier music still makes my neck hairs stand up.

Oh and whats wrong with the butterfly shirts? Its a great logo.

808 State are certainly f***ing great.

[nickking]

Essentially, I agree with Rodders and Mark's messages, but here's my reply...

If you want to dance to old time rave music, then visit the million-odd 'Old Skool' raves that are running up and down the country at the moment...

...However, if you want to listen to a band that wants to make music that's challenging and different from what's out there now, then await the new album.

It would have been so easy to make another 'In Yer Face', 'Cubik', 'Pacific', etc, but 808 chose not to, but instead try and make something different and challenging to the ear.

If you look at other bands, such as Orbital, their albums certainly haven't followed a formula, but they've also produced songs that are challenging - for example, both The Box and Style haven't exactly been that instantaneous-type dance tunes, but are both great songs, nonetheless.

Personally, I've only heard two of the songs off the new album, and they were played at the Glasgow gig, so I've no idea what the rest of the album sounds like? Perhaps you have???

And, finally, when 808 start producing t-shirts again, then maybe you'll see other t-shirts apart from the butterfly one being worn. Do you have a problem with a select group of fans wearing them???

l8rs,


Nick

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: nickking on 2002-07-08 13:30 ]</font>

[markus]

Dear messrs Anonymous, see my answers below your quotes:

On 2002-07-02 07:48, Anonymous wrote:
"Whilst I do like the new stuff it is the old stuff I listen to. We're talking Gorgeous and before but specially Quadrastate 90 and Excel. They're the tunes that make the hairs on my neck stand up.

Everyone is entitled to their own musical taste. Looking at the more than 30 Regulars pages, I can't recall one person mentioning Gorgeous as their favourite album. Interestingly many name Don Solaris though...
In about every second interview they have given in the past 10 years, 808state have stressed how easy it would have been to make a follow-up record on Pacific, exactly what they didn't want to do.
Have you read Steve Pacific Reefer's excellent interview with Martin Price, he mentions a thing or two about the recording industry...

Now they have gone off into musical f***in obscurity for no reason. They can still write the tunes, they just need to make them easier on the ear sometimes. It is fine to stick 2 fingers up at folk who don't understand you but if they just stick their fingers in their ears then what is the point?

Musical obscurity? Can you explain which tracks you are referring to? I think Demo tracks and State2State Vol2 would hardly qualify as they are, well, unreleased tracks. Which leaves the live tracks. If you are really saying you think 808 are going into musical obscurity based on two or three live tracks (which one half of you haven't even heard), well then I suppose that is your very own opinion...

Educate rather than isolate that's what I say.

808 have always been about educating (again, just dig out interviews). In the early days they educated the indie fans about dance music, now they are educating young kids that there is more to dance music than 4-to-the-floor beats.

Last thing I can't understand is the Spinmasters DJ sets which are a lot more accessable. If that is what Darren and Andy listen to then why not put that across live? To tell you the truth they have not looked interested last times I have seen them. Don't want to say it but are they drifting from Graham.

It's always been like that, the three have entirely different musical tastes (if you want some real musical obscurity, go listen to Darren's Jeep EP). I think it's what keeps the balance.

Tell the geezers to lose the 808state butterfly t-shirts at gigs."

What's your problem, Officer Crabtree?

Finally I quote myself in my report of last year's Dundee gig:
"I hope 808 State will be able to do some dance / rock crossover festivals next year. Festivals usually guarantee a big and enthusiastic audience."
Yes, I agree with Rodders, 808 shouldn't be playing at festivals that are purely dance. 808's music is timeless and hopefully will outlive the trance craze. Having said that, there are plenty of 'back to the old skool' live events, there's a regular one here in Holland that gets 8000+ people, I think 808 would fit in there no problem.

[graham]

This is a musical debate that has gone on in the band since the early days,and changes like the weather..The thing is when we try
and do club material its all about the same tricks that have existed for years,we have Dats and Dats of attempts from various times
some of it might be great club music ,but
the idea of having to put it through the system of what is now an industry,its like pissing into the ocean and expecting to warm up the sea,
when Im thinking of who might listen to what we make,Im relate ing more to a kid in the dark with his headphones on,rather than
what some DJ in huddersfield might think fits
in with his friday night set,If both happens thats great ,as it use to all the time
f*** me EX EL is the most musically up its own arse album weve ever done,none of which would be considerd by a present day dj..
On my scale of musical indulgence 808 state
is pete waterman pop,I se3nd the wife mad with cassetes of jams from 1979 or worse still
jams from last week with my mates hitting
pianos with hammers and wireing uo cellos
if musical up its own arsedom was a crime ,Id get life..but I do be lieve it brings alot
to the table when you make music long term
You have to find the childlike wonder of music somewhere in it,or give up ,which nealy happens alot too..give me a reason to put my hands in the air and Im there with you..
lots of things can get in the way of that
once your embroiled in the music biz.
but music would still be there if the biz wasnt,before records existed music has always
had the smart arse element that has wowed and
amazed people,its people magic,and very rarely a group of musicians can trancend
into that place where we all go if the dj
and the music and the moment is right,
its all about the same thing getting to that place, dance music any music..in most cultures.
Going round festivals at the moment,you realise how most music not only fails to do this,but doesnt even set out to try,I welcome a bit of smart arsing,this is our indiviuality ,f*** you attitude these days
,I was brought up expecting that out of music
I sound like your DAD ,better shut up
Daz and Andy always take the piss out of me for getting like this and its true they have a more DJ point of view and we disagree violently about a lot of musical issues
but thats always been there

[nickking]

Nice reply Graham - my sentiments exactly!

l8rs,


Nick

[Rich The Donkey Doctor]

Yes indeed, King Grezza rocks!

Something else cool about 808 - they are always so approachable and down to earth - as their responses in this discussion group prove. I suppose we're all part of a big 'Ski' family

Listening to 'Moors' from the sounds page provides another example of 808's lack of pretence - what other band give their fans such insight into the creative process?

For me 808 will always remain a true inspiration - whatever direction they persue.

However, I still hold my view that the 'old skool' scene is a bad move (for dance/electronic music in general). It's regressive, nostalgic and stands totally against the rule-breaking culture of acid house and techno. True, it's only about fun and re-livin' the day (i've even been to a few), but the reason that music sounded so good at the time was because it was new and completely fresh (remember the first time you heard Pacific or Joey Beltram's Energy Flash?). Altern8 are currently doing this circuit and it reminds me of a recent documentary ('Blood on the Carpet') where Bucks Fizz were shown doing Butlins PAs and cruises, still trying to make it big again! 808 should stay clear of this bollocks because it will fade very quickly as our generation enter their Thirties...

Maybe i'm being hypocritical, as i'm writing House which itself is going through an Eighties revival at the moment, but innovation always draws on inspiration, and somewhere along the line a new sound will develop. At the end of the day music is purely entertainment, and whether that's a 'dancing' or 'thinking' format I don't care - so long as the passion is still there...And no matter what you think of 808's music, NOBODY can deny that this vital ingredient is always present.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rich The Donkey Doctor on 2002-07-10 04:38 ]</font>

[Guest]

Thanks for the replys,

You have restored my faith.

Mr Crabtree